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BSG Recap: No Exit [Flowchart Included]

POSTED BY Jim Connelly | MONDAY FEBRUARY 16 AT 8:11 PST 
Battlestar Galactica
Season 4

All of this has been confusing before, and all of this will be confusing again.

Instead of the previouslies, we begin with yet another new prologue, and as is apropos for this show, it’s all cycling back to the beginning.  The question is, as you’ll see, “what, exactly is the beginning?”  Weirdly enough, I actually think that we find out.

It's the familiar white lettering on the black background:

THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED BEFORE
AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

A shot of Earth.  Sucking.

THE CYLONS WERE CREATED BY MAN 

Scary-ass Centurions.

THEY REBELLED 

War!

THEN THEY VANISHED
FORTY YEARS LATER, THEY CAME BACK
THEY EVOLVED 

Caprica Six walking on the planet Caprica, which is then nuked.

50,298 HUMAN SURVIVORS

The Fleet

HUNTED BY THE CYLONS

Being hunted by the Cylons

ELEVEN MODELS ARE KNOWN

Shown in order we discovered them

ONE WAS SACRIFICED

That, of course, would be Ellen Tigh, who was poisoned by Saul after he discovered that she almost gave them away on New Caprica.  He never even knew that she’d been banging Brother Cavil . . .

Ellen is resurrected, with only a single Centurion for company.  She initially freaks out, and then comes to a realization – about everything.  Showing us Ellen Tigh realizing her true nature is just the beginning of the amazing work from Kate Vernon throughout this episode. She asks for the Centurion for help out of her resurrection tub.

Present day.  We’re hanging out in surgery with Kara Thrace and Sam Anders, and he is chanting gibberish like a Hybrid.  Last episode, he took a bullet to his brain, so they need to drain it and then bring in the Fleet’s Foremost Authority on Brains to remove the bullet.  Meanwhile, Sam is giving us foreshadowing of the rest of the episode, even mentioning Ellen.  Nobody pays any attention.

This is an incredibly dialog-heavy episode -- in every sense of the word -- where we learn  a shitload of backstory and mythology.  So I’m going to summarize a lot of scenes with the information presented, as opposed to the dialog itself.  Otherwise, this becomes 10,000 or 20,000 words, and as long as one of Jacob’s  TWOP recaps.  Which you should be reading.

For example, 18 months ago, the then recently resurrected Ellen Tigh is sitting naked on a Cylon Basestar, when in strolls in Brother Cavil, and they instantly start sniping at each other.  What we learn is this: 

  • Ellen created Cavil.
  • Cavil has always known who the Final Five were. 
  • Cavil’s first name is John, but it should be Oedipus.


Back in the present day, aboard Galactica, Tyrol shows Adama the big scar that runs through the length of Galactica.  Adama almost instantly reinstates Tyrol as Chief and tasks him with fixing it.

In Sickbay, post-drainage, Sam is beatific, and asks Kara to bring the others. Kara’s thinks that Sam is so confused that he’s talking about the wrong show entirely. Sam, still with a huge smile on his face, says:  “Not those Others, silly.  The other Cylons.”  You know, Tigh, Tory, Tyrol, Ellen.

After Kara gently corrects Sam with the fact that Ellen is dead, Sam says: “I remember everything.  Earh.  Why we’re here. Everything.”

Oh.  That.  And we’re into the opening credits.

39,556 survivors searching for a home.  Home.

We’ve lost over 10,000 souls since the original attack.

12 Months ago.  On the basestar, Ellen is a prisoner of Brother John Cavil and his new girlfriend Sharon “Boomer” Valeri. Boomer,  you might remember, is the only Eight out of her entire line to not rebel against Cavil, and it was the single vote by this single model that led to the Cylon Civil war.  Here’s what we learn:

  • The belief in God comes from the Centurions, not the Skin Jobs.
  • Cavil claims that he is driven to destroy humanity by his outsized sense of justice for the enslavement of the Centurions.

What Cavil doesn’t say is that he wants to destroy humanity because he resents being made in the image of humans. He’s a self-hating android.   Data would be so disappointed.  Lore, on the other hand, would totally approve.

Cavil leaves Boomer alone with Ellen, who offers her an apple.   After Boomer refuses, Ellen tells her to think for herself, and crunches into the apple.  Symbolism!  Also: juicy!

In Sickbay, Tigh, Tory, Tyrol & Kara gather around Sam, who tells them this:

  • The Final Five all worked together (in a “Research Facility”) on Earth.
  • Tyrol & Tory were doing it.  Sex, I mean.  As were Ellen & Saul.
  • There was resurrection -- “organic memory transfer” -- on Kobol, it became a lost art after procreation started. 
  • Resurrection had only recently been reinvented; Ellen was a driver of that process.
  • They knew that the nuking was happening – because of warnings from beings only they could see (!) --  and had themselves downloaded to a ship orbiting Earth when it got blowed up real good.


Sam’s round of series-altering exposition is interrupted when Cottle walks back in from his cigarette break, and notices that Sam looks like crap.  So he breaks up the memory party.  One of the secretly funny things about this episode is that Cottle & his people are around the whole time Sam is spilling the beans about their crazy Cylon adventures. It’s not like this is secret, closed-door testimony.  He’s in a semi-public place the whole time.

Over on Colonial One, Lee Adama & President Laura Roslin are in the Quorum room, mourning the recently-massacred members of the Quorum.  Lee points out that this might be a good time to change their entire system of representation:  instead of being planet-based, it could be ship-based, as reflecting their currently reality.  Given the fact that there are 35 ships, they’re going to need a bigger room.

Roslin agrees, and taps Lee to put it all together.  She’s going to step aside and let him run things for the rest of the series, but warns him:  “You’re so hell-bent on doing the right thing that you sometimes don’t do the smart thing.”  And that’s pretty much it for Roslin and Lee this episode.  See you next week!

Elsewhere aboard Galactica, Tyrol is telling Adama that the damage is worse than they thought.  Apparently, the contractors who built Galactica cut some corners.  Shocking!  If they can sit still, and not jump for awhile, Chief thinks that he can “squeeze some more life out of her.”  But you really don’t care about this sub-plot, do you? 

Nope, you’re really waiting for some more of those Sam Anders mind-fraks.  So, let’s head back to Sickbay – though not as fast as Tyrol, evidently – and find out some more cool, but confusing, stuff.  To wit:

  • The Final Five all downloaded to their ship orbiting Earth, and headed back to the 12 Colonies.
  • But they didn’t have any jump drives, so the trip took thousands of years – luckily, time slowed down for them. 
  • When then got there, the Colonials and Centurions were already at war.  The war from 40 some-odd years ago.
  • The Centurions were already experimenting with creating humanoid Cylons: the hybrids.  But they weren’t fully successful.
  • So the Five struck a deal with the Centurions:  you stop fighting with the Colonials, and we will help you build your Skin-jobs.
  • The Five created Eight humanoid models, and gave them Resurrection.


And then, Sam has a seizure, so it’s time to call the Fleet’s Foremost Authority on Brains to take a look at him.

OK.  Too much to chew on right here, but let’s take a hunk.  First off, I have no problem with the trip taking thousands of years from the standpoint of, er, time, but only taking a few years from the standpoint of the Five.  That’s just classic Sci-Fi.  What I have a bit of a problem with is the fact that they didn’t have FTL technology.  I mean, how did they get to Earth in the first place?  Or did the colonization also take thousands of years?

So my working theory is that the FTL was lost in the same way that Resurrection was lost: they didn’t need it, so they stopped using it.  Much in the same way that pocket calculators have robbed future generations from being able to do math in their heads.

But here’s the bigger question:  why was Earth a myth to the Twelve Colonies when it clearly wasn’t the other way around?   At first, the Fleet had no idea how to find Earth; but the Five knew exactly where to find the Colonies.

Oh, and for anybody doing the math, we’ve got an extra Cylon model unaccounted for.  Kara got that almost instantly.  Maybe it’s her!  (Or maybe . . .  we’ll get to that.)

Supernova! It’s 12 months ago, and Cavil and Ellen and Boomer are talking again.  Cavil tells the story about D’anna and her visions of the Final Five in the Temple, and how they had to box her because she was going crazy.  Ellen then points out that boxing isn’t permanent; not like what happened to poor Cylon #7.

This is a cue for Cavil to monolog again about how limiting it is to be human – he’d rather experience things like supernovae as a machine -- and he places the blame for that at the feet of the Final Five and storms out. After his hissy fit, Boomer asks Ellen if she is remorseful for how badly Boomer’s boyfriend feels about his sucky human body. Ellen says not at all, because in making them human, she gave them free will, and sings “if you choose not to decide; you still have made a choice.” 

Outside of Sickbay, Tigh, Tyrol & Tory are trying to deconstruct what Sam just told them.  Get a whiteboard!  They argue over whether they lead humanity to its destruction by creating the Skin-jobs, or just bought humanity some extra decades by making the deal with the Centurions.  Tory points out that it’s really all the fault of the humans on Kobol for making them in the first place, and Tigh finally says that there’s plenty of blame to go around: everybody is complicit.  Society’s to blame.  All right, we’ll arrest them, too.

In Sickbay proper, the Fleet’s Foremost Authority on Brains says that the seizure was a hemorrhage and another one could happen any time. So despite the fact that we’re getting all of this great exposition, we really oughta get that bullet out of Sam’s brain, already!

Four months ago, on the basestar; Cavil tells Ellen that the Resurrection Hub is all gone.  He wants her to rebuild it.  Make it better, faster, stronger.  Ellen says that it would take all of the Five to do it, not just her.  She’s pretty insistent on this point.

Cavil, sensing the need for a parallel plot structure, says fine, if you don’t want to tell us, then we will cut your brain open, poke around, and just find the memories.  But it might take a few months to get it all put together.
 

Back in Sickbay; Sam has one more round of plot points to exposit before Kara finally gets him operated on by the Fleet’s Foremost Authority on Brains.  Ready?  No?  Tough:

  • John Cavil was the first skin-job; he helped build the others.
  • Ellen’s gamble was that since the Centurions believed in God; maybe they would embrace the God of Love and Mercy and not the God of Judgment and Revenge.  Sure, because that’s always how things are done in the name of God.
  • Cavil, who doesn’t believe in any kind of God whatsoever, did the following:
    • Suffocated The Five.
    • Boxed the Five.
    • Implanted the Five with false memories.
    • Loosed the Five one by one into the Colonies in order for them to have ringside seats to the holocaust.  Tigh first, and then the others. 
  • Kara is not Number Seven.  We know.  (Or is she?) The Number Seven was named Daniel. Definitely named Daniel. He died. That was the Number Seven.  Daniel.  Who is now a star in the face of sky.


As he is being wheeled into surgery, Sam has one more piece of advice for Saul, “Stay with the Fleet.  It’s all starting to happen.  Right here, the miracle.  It’s a gift from the angels.  Stay with the Fleet!”

Tigh goes to his quarters, where a very pregnant – and a catalyst for the situation they all find themselves in, don’t forget – Caprica Six asks him what Anders said.  Saul Tigh lies with the truth:  “Cottle kicked us out; he never got to finish.”

Also: Tigh hasn’t had booze in his quarters for weeks, now.  Because he mind-melded his alcoholic tendencies to Adama.

Apparently, my prediction last week of Caprica, Baltar & Hera all being in the same place at that same time – and the fireworks that would ensue -- was just wrong.  Hera’s obviously back with (the absent from this week’s episode) Athena & Helo, with no further developments. I’m beginning to wonder if the Hera plotline is just a red herring.

It’s two days ago, and Cavil has finally rounded up enough Simons – Dr. Skin-job to you -- to cut open Ellen’s brain, and dig out the resurrection information.  Why did it take so long? Apparently, there were insurance issues delaying what is, after all, an elective surgery. 

Cavil & Boomer walk in, and Ellen is unconcernedly drawing a picture of Saul – man, that’s going to be good times when she and Caprica Six come face to face! – and seems utterly unconcerned that they’re about to split her head open like a pumpkin.  But first, some more plot points:

  • Cavil sent the Final Five to live amongst the humans so that they could see how sucky humans are as compared to the perfect machines the Cylons could be.
  • Which is part of the reason that he never killed the Five all of the times he could have:  he wanted them to apologize to him for making him humanoid. 
  • Number Seven, the Daniels – who had better be important, somehow – were artists.  And they were all killed in a jealous rage by Cavil, who thought that they were loved more by Ellen than he was.


BTW, I should point out that Cavil seems wayyyyyyyy more one-note on paper than he does when he is embodied by Dean Stockwell, who knocks every single scene right out of the park.  Even when he throws one more temper tantrum; claims that he is somehow a mistake, and it’s all her fault, because she made him. 

Ellen reacts like mommies have throughout time when a selfish and petulant child makes that claim.  He’s not a mistake; he can be a good boy if he only chooses, and she loves him.  He rejects her, and storms out to get ready to watch the rooting around in her brain.

Back aboard Galactica: Chief tells Adama that remember how the damage to the ship was worse than they thought?  Well, its even worse than they thought when they thought it was worse that what they originally thought it was!   Luckily, the Cylons happen to have some organic technology that will fix everything.  Of course they do.  Adama, who just risked a civil war trying to put Cylon technology on every ship in the fleet, doesn’t want this on Galactica.

Oh yeah, you don’t care about this, so lets just wrap it up.  A little bit later, Adama sees a big-ass scar on the war of his quarters, and eventually drunk dials Chief and tells him to do whatever he needs to fix Galactica, his girl.  That said, the fact that they are essentially doing surgery on Galactica, and making it a organic-machine compound, dovetails nicely with the rest of the episode, and the confusion of human and machine that permeates nearly every single bullet point I’ve listed above.

Right.  So which brain surgery do you want to know about, Sam’s or Ellen’s?

Sam’s.  Not good.  Hours and hours under the knife, has left him with very little brain activity.   The final diagnosis from the Fleet’s Foremost Authority on Brains:  Sam has the Blue Screen of Death.

Ellen’s.  Good.  Remember all of that stuff about free will?  Boomer exercises some of her own, and instead of leading Ellen to surgery, spirits Ellen from the basestar, jumping away at the last second.

So that’s where we are.  Are you confused?  I was, so I broke it down with a flowchart:

Cylon Flow Chart


This is how I interpret the sequence of events.

Humans and Skin-jobs both existed on Kobol, for reasons unknown.  The Humans went to the Twelve Colonies; the Skin-jobs went to Earth, also for reasons unknown.

On Earth, the Skin-jobs created Centurions; who rebelled and nuked them.  However, the Final Five escaped via downloading and headed towards the Colonies.  Slowly.

Meanwhile, Colonialists also created Centurions, who rebelled against their creators.  Oh, and got religion.

The Final Five met up with the Colonial Centurions, convinced them to stop the war and helped them create the Eight Skin-jobs.

Cavil killed Daniel; killed and boxed the Final Five, and rebooted the war effort, seeding the Colonials with Skin-jobs.  Some knew who they were; some needed to be activated.

At some point, he reintroduced the Five into the Colonials, but without memories of their true nature.  They needed Bob Dylan to activate them.

Finally, who is Daniel?  I always write the first draft of these in a vacuum, so I can get my thoughts down without being polluted by smarter people; then I go nuts and read a bunch of recaps.  There seem to be two big Daniel theories out there:

  • Daniel is Starbuck’s father.  This would somehow help to explain her mysterious disappearance and reappearance. 
  • Daniel is Baltar.  This would somehow help to explain his ongoing visions of Six.


Both theories are good; both theories have flaws.  Hell, maybe Daniel is Baltar AND Starbuck’s father. 

My brain hurts.

Jim Connelly writes about Technology and Pop Culture for Medialoper.

 

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  1. Says:
    February 16th, 2009 at 09:38 am OOOOH, if Daniel is Baltar AND Starbuck's father, that would be err, rather monstrously incestuous, no? Oh and nice tip o' the hat to Rush!
  2. Says:
    February 16th, 2009 at 10:32 am Thanksf or the flow chart, it finally helped me understand the chronology. I have about a zillion questions still but it's a start! Do you think there is some fundemental difference between the F5 skinjobs and the other skinjobs? As a corollary, any thoughts on the whole aging thing? We've already seen flashbacks with a younger looking Tigh, we know he and Bill have "aged" over the 30 years they have known each other so (and Ellen I'm assuming). Maybe that's one the other difference between the F5 and O8? I'm guessing that Daniel is somehow related to Starbuck, and being her dad would make the most sense (using the term loosely) but it would be creepy as hell if it he were also Baltar cause she didn't she frak him in S2? Yeech.
  3. Jim Connelly Says:
    February 16th, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Hey Anonymous,

    Good question about the aging.  I don't think that we know whether or not The Eight age.  However, it's entirely possible that the Earth Cylons from which the Five came from did age.  I'm guessing that they led "normal" "human" lives on Earth.  Especially if they procreated.

    And yes on Baltar & Starbuck; which would parallel Cavil and Ellen, though not as willfully creepy, with Cavil essentially banging his own amnesiac moms.

  4. Says:
    February 17th, 2009 at 02:49 pm good recap...i found it amusing that the brain doc was pc guy...it was right? or was that just the beer?
  5. Says:
    February 17th, 2009 at 06:03 pm Aging: Tigh fought alongside Adama in the Cylon War (maybe just after). One episode had flashbacks (but I cannot remember if the scenes with a 'young' Tigh were on the DVD extras only)
  6. Says:
    February 17th, 2009 at 07:38 pm Ellen confessed to Tigh she banged brother Cavil.
  7. Says:
    February 17th, 2009 at 09:51 pm "Humans and Skin-jobs both existed on Kobol, for reasons unknown." As I understood it, Humans were native to Kobol, and created the Cylons/Skin-jobs there. First in the cycle of events so to speak. No?
  8. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 05:31 am i vote that starbuck is a Daniel. Cavil was said to have corrupted the genetic formula for Daniel. That could have changed Daniel's sex to female. Sensitive and an artist are also traits of Starbuck too.
  9. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 05:53 am The original BSG ran out of resources and was reduced to reusing stock shots and old movie plots. At the end they only aired every few weeks and were routinely "preempted" by "specials." I watched only the pilot for the new BSG because once I saw that Cylons were humanoid and there would be tension between the military and civilian survivors, it would be "fire up the big-ass cliche machine." And this summary makes me feel very vindicated. Now howl with rage.
  10. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 06:48 am another vote for Daniel being Starbuck.
  11. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 07:33 am This recap was the best I've seen, all the others I have read so far left out very important parts or got confused. I think I acdtually followed the whole thing when I watched but just one point this recap neglects (or perhaps confusges): The original skin jobs (from previous sources) left Kobol to go to earth ~4000 years ago. Or rather, they built the Temple on the Algaeu planet while on their way to Earth ~4000 years ago. The other 12 tribes stayed on Kobol and didn't leave to go to form the 12 colonies until ~2000 years ago, the same time that Earth was nuked (presumably in a war between the Skin Jobs and the Centurions they created). The not having FTL was a problem for me, your explanation that maybe they simply forgot it like Ressurection is the only one that makes sense to me. Otherwise they were only living on Earth for a few hundred years at most (if they travelled from Kobol to Earth taking roughly 2000 years) before the nuking of Earth, which hardly seems sufficient. But we also know that the 12 tribes didn't have FTL either. FTL was invented in the colonies AFTER they left Kobol. So... I think there may be a slight error with some of the times mentioned earlier in the show which will be retconned away or ignored.
  12. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 07:52 am "I hate the new BSG so much I read articles about it and then post about it online." What a fool!
  13. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 08:11 am Now it makes sense. The Humans and the Cylons are going to make peace and end up on Kobol– in the past. And the whole thing starts again.
  14. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 08:35 am "I have no problem with the trip taking thousands of years from the standpoint of, er, time, but only taking a few years from the standpoint of the Five. That’s just classic Sci-Fi. " No, that just the Theory of Relativity as explained by Einstein, and proven on Space Shuttle flights as fact: time slows the faster one travels. That's not sci-fi, that's science FACT.
  15. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am I vote that Daniel is really Adama's dead son. He is brought up and is part of the triangle of Starbuck, Lee and the Admiral. He is brought up, but not too much, but just enough to remind us every now and again about it (especially with the Admiral's relationship with Starbuck). It would be devasting to the Adama's too. I think he makes a reappearance in the last episodes.
  16. Jim Connelly Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 11:17 am

    Anonymous,

    You raise a lot of different points, so I'm going to address a couple. 

    • I flat-out missed that Ellen had confessed to Tigh.  My bad.
    • In terms of the "reasons unknown" -- we still don't know why the Kobol humans created Skin-jobs.  (Or if they created Centurions, for that matter.)
    • I left timeline out of it, because I'm still not fully clear on the timeline, and when FTL was invented in the Galacticaverse.  If it really was invented in the Colonies (and therefore, never on Earth), it gives creedence to another interesting theory I read:  that skin-jobs were invented during the long journey to Earth.
    • Just because the Theory of Relativity is science fact doesn't mean that time slowing down as you tend towards the speed of light isn't also a classic Sci-Fi plot device.  Stories were written using this concept long before the Shuttle proved it.
    • Finally, another interesting Starbuck theory that a friend of mine proposed:  Starbuck was created by Cavil after he boxed the Five.

     

     

  17. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 01:20 pm They've made the series overly complicated and duller than an in-flight magazine from Air Belgium.
  18. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 01:27 pm The suggestion that Starbuck is a skin-job has a possible problem ... Starbuck had a mother. I suppose you could argue that she was just an implanted memory but she existed during Starbuck's early military career ... which was real.
  19. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 01:32 pm Could Kara simply be from Kobol? She doesn't need to be "Danielle". There's got to be another "Sam" out there, either duplicated, or something, because somehow Kara was downloaded and sent back, maybe by the colony that Cavil/John refers to: "They still don't know about *your* colony! It's still out there!"
  20. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 01:35 pm Do you have to be Cylon to be downloaded?
  21. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 02:25 pm I don't think I've seen anyone comment about this on the blogs, but does anyone else think that the "dying leader that will lead them to the new homeland" is actually the galactica itself? It sure seems to be dying, and it would be pretty fitting if it was destroyed in the finale as they reach kobol or wherever.
  22. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 03:05 pm Ever notice how Kara, Lee, Gaeta.... all their hair grows, gets cut, is styled differently, etc. Caprica 6, the 8s... all the skin jobs and the hybrids.... I don't think any of them have had a hair change since the beginning....
  23. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 03:07 pm If the resurrection hub is damaged and the final 5 are needed to fix it... how did Ellen download?
  24. Says:
    February 18th, 2009 at 03:51 pm Because she resurrected 18 months ago, way before the hub was destroyed.
  25. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 04:57 am So, when Starbuck arrived on Earth, she was dying and somehow the resurrection technology kicked on and took car of her and her ship?
  26. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 05:31 am Chief's hair was shaved and has since grown back...
  27. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 05:35 am I think that there is a chance that Starbuck is Daniel. They noted that Daniel's makeup was altered. Starbuck found her body on earth. They also mentioned that there is a missing lab that still exists. I agree with you. It has to be Baltar or Starbuck or someone related to Starbuck. Maybe that's why Starbuck is so unpredictable. She's flawed. We shall see. This season kicks ass. I only regret it can't continue but ending is what makes it so interesting.
  28. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 07:33 am I will never get over the fact that John Hodgkins, the PC guy from the Mac commercials (you know, standing next to Justin Long), a side journalist from the Daily Show, is the Brain Guy on Battlestar Galactica. John F'n Hodgkins. -b
  29. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 09:38 am Another correspondent of the daily show (Aasif Mandvi ) played a brain surgeon on 'Jerrico'. A pattern might be starting here. I can't wait to see Rob Riggle playing a brain surgeon somewhere.
  30. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 10:38 am Perhaps the identity of Cylon #7 is right in front of us. >Daniel< Graystone.
  31. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 11:00 am Has anyone noticed that the main character's name on the new "Caprica" series is named Daniel?
  32. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 11:40 am Daniel is likely "Daniel Greystone" and was also likely the old man in the goo in the RAZOR movie.
  33. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 11:43 am Could "Daniel" possibly have anything to do with 6's and Tigh's baby?? This baby being (apparently) the first cylon/cylon procreation? The two of them are already refering to the baby as a boy....
  34. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 12:00 pm Doesn't fit! Caprica takes place pre-Cylon War #1. The final five got to the colonies once the war had started and created the new skin jobs, of which #7 Daniel is one. There may be so other connection. My vote is on Starbuck. Did you notice how quickly she passed Anders off to surgery when he was getting around to that topic - she knows!
  35. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 12:20 pm "Daniel" is either... Billy or Adama's other son.
  36. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 12:38 pm Who is Daniel? First, the exclusions: Daniel CANNOT be Baltar. Baltar has been told by Head 6 that he is not a Cylon. She may have lied, but even if she did, Baltar is known to Ellen and Anders, neither of whom mentioned Baltar being Daniel when they were questioned. Also, Cavil killed the #7 line out of jealousy, yet he could have killed Baltar immediately following the Caprica invasion when Baltar was a puppet figure (though he did suggest doing so at one point, there was no jealousy evident there, simply a desire to send a message to New Capricans about authority). So who is Daniel? Ron Moore's Podcast said that Daniel would feature in Caprica. We already know that the Caprican Skinjobs creator (no, not Ellen or the FF. They came later.) is named Daniel Graystone, who took his daughter's technology of creating life (actually creating a perfect copy of a human personality/mind/soul) and applied it to organic bodies (Pre-FF Skinjob Cylons). This guy is most likely Daniel. We know that Ellen, Tigh, Anders, Tory, and Tyrol created Cylon copies of themselves. We know that Daniel Graystone created a copy of his daughter. Thus, it seems entirely plausible that a Cylon version of Daniel Greystone was created as #7, and was killed by Cavil. Other legitimate possibilities: -Daniel is Starbuck's father. Evidence? Not much. Starbuck's father is an artists, as was Daniel. -Daniel is Starbuck. Possible as Daniel's genetic soup was corrupted by Cavil Evidence? Starbuck is an artist. Starbuck has returned from the dead. Evidence to the contrary: No one knows how the hell Starbuck returned. -Daniel is Starbuck AND is Daniel Graystone. If Graystone was #7, it is posible Kara is just a realignment of genes and chromosomes. -Daniel is Starbuck's father AND Daniel Grasytone. Now it's just getting silly. -Daniel is simply Daniel. He is not a copy of anyone already mentioned or seen on this show or in the upcoming Caprica series, and is simply a throwaway character created to fill in a plothole/continuity error. Evidence: Ron Moore admits that there was a plot hole in the Cylon numbering. He states that he DID NOT want the show to turn into "who is the 13th Cylon?" Oops. Guess you gave your audience too much credit.
  37. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pm At one point in one of the Hybrid's ramblings (to Starbuck, I think - have to go back and check) she mentions something about evolution occuring only in 2 dimensions to speed up development - perhaps that refers to the new batch of skin jobs not aging. Rather than having to age and grow individually, the constant regeneration was supposed to help them develop faster as a race? Also remembering something Athena said long ago about using death as a learning experience and not wasting the accumulated learning that would be destroyed by death. This fits with Cavil's 'machines are superior' idea, but loses in the 'life with a purpose' debate as Natalie frames it.
  38. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 01:22 pm Daniel is... Dirk Benedict... Starbuck's father
  39. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 01:24 pm Oh, because of my link, I got flagged as spam. Sorry about that. Nina
  40. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 01:46 pm Maybe I'm dumb but, from the flowchart the skin-jobs went to earth and the humans went to the 12 colonies. But were there only skin-jobs on earth or was it somehow pre-populated with humans? And why did Ellen and the skin-jobs make centurions on earth?? if one follows enough sci-fi we know we create robots to do our work for us which is why they rebel. Why do skin jobs need robots? Doesn't the "happened before happen again" meme require that it was humans who made centurions on earth and they rebeled and blew it up? also, i think sam's quoting Milton not jibberish at the beginning of the episode.
  41. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 02:09 pm if cylons don't age, how will 6 and Tigh's baby grow up?
  42. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 02:41 pm I don't remember anything (or see anything here) giving the impression that Earth was nuked by their Centurions. I think that the Cylons were created only by the humans recently in the show's history. They weren't (at least the centurions) created on Kobol. So WHO created the "Final Five" Skin-Jobs (and WHEN)? They are apparently way out of this Cylon creation timeline. If the other non-final-five Skin-jobs were created by the Centurions with the final 5's help and predate ALL of them by thousands of years and apparently co-existed with humans at some point, WHAT are they? Are they even Cylons? Whew. In the prequel show Caprica, which in part explores the creation of the Cylons, a main character will be Joseph Adama, Bill's lawyer father and Lee's grandpappy. His friend/rival is Daniel Greystone, who is to be the creator of the cylons... Perhaps the Five helped Daniel create a "backup" of himself? Perhaps they made a "Daniel" in his image? Oh, and John Hodgeman? Really?
  43. Jim Connelly Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 02:49 pm

    I vote for Samatha Bee playing a brain surgeon -- with an attitude, of course -- on Private Practice!I'm going to stay out of all of the Daniel speculation:  at this point we don't know enough, and it may just be a way to cover up a plot hole or tie (Tigh?) into the Caprica series.  Also:  y'all have a lot of great speculation.In terms of skin-jobs and Earth.  My understanding is that there were no pre-existing humans on any of the planets settled by the Kobol refugees.  The Galacticaverse seems to be one where life originated only in a single place.  Finally, I think that skin-jobs DO age.  Perhaps slowly, like Bob Costas or Dick Clark.

  44. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 03:07 pm Just another "Daniel" angle-- the name of the colonial pilot that Adama shot down after having sent him across the armistice line (before the destruction of the colonies), is Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek.
  45. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 03:43 pm Here's my problem with the 'aging' thing... in the flashbacks, the FF are all shown as the age they are now. But other flashbacks have shown, e.g., the younger Tighe. So what, Cavil killed them, reincarnated them with implanted memories, and made them younger as well? And they just happen to be the same same age right when the holocaust hit? Seems a bit far-fetched... as does the fact that out of upteen million people, all five of them managed to survive the initial Cylon attack. And if the Centurions rebelled (twice), and are smart enough to attempt to build their own skin-jobs, why in the heck would they agree to become dumb soldiers for the new SJs? I love the show, and I don't mind a few coincidences to keep the surprises coming (it's a TV show after all), but they're really straining credulity at this point.
  46. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 05:16 pm And if the Centurions rebelled (twice), and are smart enough to attempt to build their own skin-jobs, why in the heck would they agree to become dumb soldiers for the new SJs? They were not the same skin jobs. Don't you understand that the humans at separate times and places created the cylons. It would be like 5000 years ago in China someone invented gunpowder. 2000 years later without the knowledge that China had invented gunpowder, someone in America invented gunpowder. Also I do not consider the Final Five to be Cylons. They are humans who figured out how to clone themselves and then download their memories into clones. Hate to tell everyone this but this is what we are doing right now. We are learning how to clone ourselves while some tech geniuses say we will some day be able to upload our memories onto the internet. There IS a difference. Cylons are created from scratch while the Final Five are really clones from Human beings who figured out how to basically live forever.
  47. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 06:08 pm thank you - my brain hurts less now
  48. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 07:01 pm Hi, What about Admiral Adama's pills? could it be that he is actually the dying leader?
  49. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 09:36 pm Nik says: There are 10 types of Cylons revealed thus far in BSG: #1. Kobol Skinjob Cylons: created by Kobol Humans (who were expelled from Kobol for creating them). The 13th tribe of Kobol. Later settled on Earth to create the second and third types of Cylons. All the Cylons who were expelled are dead. #2. Earth Centurion Cylons: created by Skinjob Cylons living on Earth (probably NOT created by Ellen, Tigh, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol). All the Earth Centurion Cylons are Dead. #3. The Final Five: Born *as* Skinjobs on Earth; Tigh, Tyrol, Tory, Anders, and Ellen. Resurrected after Earth's destruction. Traveled to Earth and helped Colonial Centurions (#5 type) create Colonial Skinjobs (#8 type Cylons- Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, Boomer/Athena). Killed by Cavil, who re-resurrected them, erased their memories and introduced them into the fleet. Of these Five, Ellen died, was re-re-resurected. #4. Caprica Cylons: Created by Daniel Greystone and his daughter Zoe (Zoe's daughter insists that the One True God gave Zoe the knowledge to create life). Created after Earth was destroyed, but before the Final Five arrived on Earth, and before the Colonial Centurions (#5). As far as we know, the only Caprican Cylon is Zoe-R, a replication of Zoe Graystone. As the series hasn't even aired yet, much less finished, there is much left to learn, and it may well be that other Caprican Cylons exist. #5. Colonial Centurions: Created by Daniel Graystone (and possibly others). Not much is known about their origin. These Centurions roughly resembled Earth Centurions (#2), and presumably were the first *Cylons* to worship the One True God (though there were Capricans who worshipped a One True God. Also, Ellen says that belief in the One True God came from Centurions, but she may have been referring to Earth Centurions, or both Earth and Colonial Centurions). #6. THE Hybrid: Origin unknown. Likely created by Colonial Centurions, but may be another Daniel Graystone creation. Might be the One True God. Might be Daniel Graystone. #7. Ship Hybrids: Created by Colonial Centurions. Function as the brain of the ships. These cylons speak in jibberish that often proves prophetic. #8. Colonial Skinjobs: Created by the Final Five for the Colonial Centurions. Cavil, Leoben, D'anna, Doral, Simon, Caprica Six, Daniel, and Boomer/Athena. Colonial Centurions as well as Cavil helped create Colonial Skinjobs, though what degree of influence they had in helping the Final Five in creating this type is uncertain. Of the Colonial Skinjobs, the "Daniel" model is presumably dead and destroyed (though this model might actually be a cylon version of Daniel Graystone, or possibly Starbuck, or Starbuck's father, or Zak Adama). #9. Human/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Hera. Born of Helo (human) and Athena (Colonial Skinjob). #10. Final Five/Colonial Skinjob Hybrid- Tigh and Caprica Six's unborn child.
  50. Says:
    February 19th, 2009 at 10:28 pm Nik says- Answering more questions: Q: Is Admiral Adama/Lee/Starbuck the dying leader? A: No. None of these candidates 1) are suffering from a wasting disease or 2) saw a vision of serpents. Only Roslin qualifies as the dying leader. Q: Why did Tigh age? Explanation: There's nothing to indicate that manipulating Tigh's age is impossible or even difficult. This is not a continuity error. Cavil may simply have introduced a re-resurrected Tigh in his 20s-40s. Since the science behind creating Skinjobs has yet tobe explained, we must simply assume that manipulating age is possible. Q: If they were so advanced, why didn't Earth have FTL technology? A: Why does Japan make better electronics and FInland makes better phones? Again, this is not a continuity error. Some cultures simply do better jobs at creating certain things. It may be that space travel was less important to Earth, who had no neighbors (unlike the 12 colonies, who had to travel through space to see each other). Q: Why are the Colonial Centurions following Colonial Skinjobs? Remember last season? A six named Natalie, along with the Leobens and Sharons wanted to STOP Cavil from lobotomizing Raiders and inhibiting the thoughts of Centurions. Cavil mysteriously opposed this... NOW we realize that Cavil knew what happened to Earth Cylons and Earth Centurions. Cavil wanted to inhibit Centurions and Raiders because he did not want a repeat of Earth (or the 12 Colonies, for that matter). Q: Aren't the Final Five actually humans who cloned themselves? A: No. The Final Five were BORN Cylon. Everyone on Earth was a Cylon. Earthlings are the descendants of the Cylons who were expelled from Kobol, also called the 13th tribe. Tigh, Ellen, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol were all BORN on Earth and were thus Cylons BEFORE they died, and were resurrected to look for the other 12 tribes. Q: Were there any humans on Earth before it was destroyed? A: No. The first humans to set foot on Earth came from Galactica. Q: Why did Ellen create the Earth Centurion Cylons? A: There is NO evidence to suggest that any of the Final FIve had anything to do with the creation of any Centurions. Q: What's the deal with the timeline? Did the exodus from Kobol and the destruction of Earth happen at the same time? A: Yes. According to Tyrol's statement on the Algae Planet, the 13th tribe left 1,600-2,000 years BEFORE the other 12 colonies left. Why this happened is unclear. As such, around the time Earth was destroyed, the 12 colonies left Kobol. It may be that the gods, or perhaps the One True God, expelled the humans from Kobol BECAUSE Earth was destroyed. Zeus warned the humans not to return. The goddess Athena also committed suicide at this point in time. Alternately, it may be that the humans left Kobol and then returned, only to be booted out again. Alternately, it may be that returning to Kobol was PART of the Cycle that happens again and again (most recently when the 12 colonies led by Adama and Roslin left to find their new home).
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